This short interview captured on March 21, 2025, by Edward Schoelwer with Kevin Thomas, artistic director of Collage Dance Collective, explores the company’s efforts to make a ballet adaptation of Zora Neale Hurston’s celebrated novel “Their Eyes Were Watching God.” The conversation has been edited for clarity purposes.
The “beta version” of the ballet was first performed in April 2023 in Memphis, TN. Following the public performance the creative team went back to work to revise and expand the ballet. In February 2025 the new and improved version of Their Eyes Were Watching God was brought before the public again in Memphis. Later in the month the ballet was performed in Charleston, SC (presented by MOJA Arts Festival) and Clemson University, Clemson, SC. The creative team included co-choreographers Amy Hall Garner and Kevin Thomas, composer Quinn Mason, libretto by Shalishah “Petey” Franklin, set design by Alexander Woodward, lighting design by Wilburn Bonnell, costume design by Andrea “Abeo” Brown, puppet design by Matthew Sorensen.
Topics: the selection of “Their Eyes Were Watching God” as the source material for a ballet for Collage Dance Collective; the collaborative process in making a new ballet; working with choreographer Amy Hall Garner; the process of choreographing Their Eyes Were Watching God; the themes and motifs of the ballet.
1)
ES: Who started the conversation about considering Their Eyes Were Watching God becoming a work in Collage's repertoire? And what was the incident or reason that caused the person to bring up the idea?
KT: The idea came from Marcellus [Harper, executive director of Collage Dance Collective,] because it's a beloved book, “Their Eyes Were Watching God.” That was way back in 2010. We're well aware of the lack of classical work that has anything to do with our community. That's what really sparked it. I have a company of BIPOC dancers, and I wanted classical ballets that resonated with who they were. And for them to tell a story that was representative of their community and who we are. So, being in the South, you know, why not start telling stories about the South?
2)
ES: Had you read the novel?
KT: I read it a long time ago. And then, of course, when we really were going to do it, I read the book again. And then I read the Cliff Notes, too, and got more insights on who the characters were. Mayor Starks, Janie’s second husband, is really a character modeled after Zora Neale Hurston’s father. Her father was the mayor of Eatonville. And Tea Cake was actually based on the writer’s real-life lover, who broke her heart. I did a lot of research to get insight for the choreography.
3)
ES: Was there an episode (or a series of episodes) from the novel that especially lent itself to convince you that the novel “Their Eyes Were Watching God” could make a good Their Eyes Were Watching God ballet?
KT: Well, she had three major relationships, right? Three husbands. That would give us three pas de deux. That's ballet! And then in the book, the image of the pear tree, you know, that's a huge image. That's her life. Growing up with her grandmother, the pear tree symbolized her youth, beauty, love. That's why I thought it was just very important, a big piece of the novel, because it's talked about throughout the novel. And there are the veils. A veil for each marriage. That's a theme that all the readers know about. One veil she uses to cover the body of her husband after he falls. We had several Zoom meetings with Shalishah [libretto writer Shalishah Franklin], on what we thought would be important. And then she came up with the libretto. And even when the libretto was put together, we still had several meetings after to fine-tune the libretto.
4)
ES: Making the ballet version of Their Eyes Were Watching God was a huge undertaking, administratively. Was there ever a moment in the process that you thought it was going to be too much for Collage to handle?
KT: No, no, not really, no. Because….it's a collaborative effort, and I knew that I'd have support from the team to get through what was needed to get through. Of course, there were very difficult moments. Not getting the music soon enough when we wanted to get the music, that kind of stuff. But, no, it was a great collaborative effort. I really liked how we all came together, you know, the visual team, the creative team.
5)
ES: Did you, from the beginning, want an original score, or did you think that maybe you would use music from other sources?
KT: We definitely leaned towards an original score, because it would be serving such a huge ballet, or huge 30-minutes. I think that it would be hard to find music that's already been created and assemble it. So just having an original score and having someone sit in with us for the creation of the piece, who can understand what we're trying to do, so that the storytelling and the music version of it make sense. Marcellus had done research and had heard a lot of great things about this composer [Quinn Mason]. So, we contacted him. And funny enough, both conductors who conducted, Their Eyes Were Watching God, know Quinn.
6)
ES: [Note: in the immediate aftermath of the George Floyd catastrophe rising-star African American composers, who once felt that they had not been getting the attention they deserved, found themselves overwhelmed with offers of commissions.] Not getting the music in a timely way was a problem. What encouraged you to keep on going till you got the music from the composer?
KT: It was a challenge, but the show must go on. We had to get the steps out. I've been, I've definitely been, in many instances where the choreographer has to choreograph without the music. And then you get the music, and then you make it work. And that's what happened at the beginning. But, you know, Amy Hall Garner and I…we just kept at it.
7)
ES: How were the choreographers selected, and why?
KT: I'm one of the choreographers. And we chose Amy Hall Garner because we just like her work. We like the way she choreographs and her energy, and I felt she would be someone easy for me to collaborate with. And she was. It was great working with her.
8)
ES: The show has two choreographers, so how was the collaboration conceived?
KT: It's funny, it was very organic. It's not like we planned who would choreograph what. It's kind of like we both started, and then we would go off and work on a section here, and then work on a section here, and come back. Then we both would decide, “Why don't you choreograph that, and then I'll choreograph that.” Then we would bring it together. And then we'll still change it. I'll choreograph something, and Amy will look at it, and she'll make it even better. You know what I mean? So that was really wonderful.
9)
ES: Was there a segment that was completely your work?
KT: That's a good question. No. Everything I did, Amy has touched. And everything Amy did, I touched. We both really collaborated. It was kind of like….We'd come and speak to each other and say, “I'm trying to do this with it, what do you think?” And then something else would happen.
10)
ES: And what was the hardest section of the ballet to develop?
KT: For me, it was the storm scene and the dog bite. To make it look realistic, you know, because we don't have a real dog. We have a puppet. And as a choreographer, you're used to choreographing, making steps complicated. But with the dog, it was making the steps much easier so that you can really see the dog and see the character of the dog. And it's funny. Sometimes the simplest thing is the most complicated thing to get across. Also [another challenge], the book….this is her [Janie, the main character’s] lifespan. The story covers 30 years. And we tell it in 30 minutes. And, for me, the other hard thing is telling a story that people understand and can see in the movement. And it has to happen so quickly.
11)
ES: The book was 193 pages and you condensed it into a 30-minute ballet. Did you ever think you were going to make it a longer piece?
KT: It was our intention to make a 30-minute ballet. But it is possible to expand on it. Let's see what the funding climate is going to turn into, what other foundations will support us and our growth.
12)
ES: When a person watches the ballet version of Their Eyes Were Watching God, what questions should they be asking themselves? What are the important things that they should be looking for?
KT: Number one, I think they should read the book. Like a lot of ballets, if you don't know the story and you go see it, sure, you might understand some of it. But if you know the story, you'll really get a lot more out of it. It's great to read her work and then see how it's manifested through movement and through music. And I would like them to really understand the intimacy of the pas de deux of each relationship and see how different each relationship is.
